{"id":2713,"date":"2016-05-05T21:47:10","date_gmt":"2016-05-05T19:47:10","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.leonardcohen.de\/?p=2713"},"modified":"2016-05-05T22:01:21","modified_gmt":"2016-05-05T20:01:21","slug":"kw-17-2016-75-jahre-bob-dylan-75-beitraege-zu-dylans-75-geburtstag-1975-cohen-dylan-performances-in-concert-music-poetry-anecdotes-infos-the-neverending-everlasting-compa","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/leonardcohen.de\/?p=2713","title":{"rendered":"KW-17-2016: 75 JAHRE BOB DYLAN – 75 Beitr\u00e4ge zu Dylans 75. Geburtstag – (19\/75 – SONGWRITERS ON SONGWRITING. Paul Zollo legte vierte Auflage vor. DYLAN`n`Cohen On Songwriting : COHEN & DYLAN – Performances, in Concert, Music & Poetry, Anecdotes & Infos. the neverending & everlasting comparison. COHEN & DYLAN – Some critical analysises – by Christof Graf"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"bd-book-songwritersonsonwgriting-zolle\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Paul Zollos Buch, indem Songwriter (wie z.B. Bob Dylan <\/a>und Leonard Cohen <\/a>\u00fcber die hohe Kunst des Songwriting referieren, gibt es nun schon in der vierten auch erweiterten Auflage. In der neuen Ausgabe mit dabei – neben Dyaln und Cohen – auch Lou Reed und Lenny Kravitz.<\/strong><\/p>\n

This expanded fourth edition of Songwriters on Songwriting includes ten new interviews–with Alanis Morissette, Lenny Kravitz, Lou Reed, and others. In these pages, sixty-two of the greatest songwriters of our time go straight to the source of the magic of songwriting by offering their thoughts, feelings, and opinions on their art. Representing almost every genre of popular music, from blues to pop to rock, here are the figures that have shaped American music as we know it.<\/p>\n

Bob Dylan on Sacrifice, the Unconscious Mind, and How to Cultivate the Perfect Environment for Creative Work<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u201cPeople have a hard time accepting anything that overwhelms them.\u201d<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

By Maria Popova<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Van Morrison once characterized Bob Dylan (b. May 24, 1941) as the greatest living poet. And since poetry, per Muriel Rukeyser\u2019s beautiful definition, is an art that relies on the \u201cmoving relation between individual consciousness and the world,\u201d to glimpse Dylan\u2019s poetic prowess is to grasp at once his singular consciousness and our broader experience of the world. That\u2019s precisely what shines through in Paul Zollo\u2019s 1991 interview with Dylan, found in Songwriters On Songwriting (public library) \u2014 that excellent and extensive treasure trove that gave us Pete Seeger on originality and also features conversations with such celebrated musicians as Suzanne Vega, Leonard Cohen, k.d. lang, David Byrne, Carole King, and Neil Young, whose insights on songwriting extend to the broader realm of creative work in a multitude of disciplines.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Zollo captures Dylan\u2019s singular creative footprint:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Pete Seeger said, \u201cAll songwriters are links in a chain,\u201d yet there are few artists in this evolutionary arc whose influence is as profound as that of Bob Dylan. It\u2019s hard to imagine the art of songwriting as we know it without him.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[\u2026]<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

There\u2019s an unmistakable elegance in Dylan\u2019s words, an almost biblical beauty that has sustained his songs throughout the years.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

One essential aspect of Dylan\u2019s creative process that comes up again and again in the interview is the notion of the unconscious and the optimal environment for its free reign. Dylan tells Zollo:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

It\u2019s nice to be able to put yourself in an environment where you can completely accept all the unconscious stuff that comes to you from your inner workings of your mind. And block yourself off to where you can control it all, take it down\u2026<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Like many creators, Dylan values that unconscious aspect of creativity far more than rational deliberation, speaking to the idea that the muse cannot be willed, only welcomed \u2014 a testament to the role of unconscious processing in the psychological stages of creative work. He tells Zollo:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

The best songs to me \u2014 my best songs \u2014 are songs which were written very quickly. Yeah, very, very quickly. Just about as much time as it takes to write it down is about as long as it takes to write it.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

In order to do that, he adds, one must \u201cstay in the unconscious frame of mind to pull it off, which is the state of mind you have to be in anyway.\u201d Contrary to Bukowski\u2019s punchy assertion that the ideal environment for creativity is an irrelevant delusion and E.B. White\u2019s admonition that \u201ca writer who waits for ideal conditions under which to work will die without putting a word on paper,\u201d Dylan believes this optimal frame of mind can be induced \u2014 or, at least, greatly aided \u2014 by the right conditions:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

For me, the environment to write the song is extremely important. The environment has to bring something out in me that wants to be brought out. It\u2019s a contemplative, reflective thing\u2026<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Environment is very important. People need peaceful, invigorating environments. Stimulating environments.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

To foster such unconscious receptivity, Dylan argues that \u201cyou have to be able to get the thoughts out of your mind\u201d and explains:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

First of all, there\u2019s two kinds of thoughts in your mind: there\u2019s good thoughts and evil thoughts. Both come through your mind. Some people are more loaded down with one than another. Nevertheless, they come through. And you have to be able to sort them out, if you want to be a songwriter, if you want to be a song singer. You must get rid of all that baggage. You ought to be able to sort out those thoughts, because they don\u2019t mean anything, they\u2019re just pulling you around, too. It\u2019s important to get rid of them thoughts.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Then you can do something from some kind of surveillance of the situation. You have some kind of place where you can see it but it can\u2019t affect you. Where you can bring something to the matter, besides just take, take, take, take, take. As so many situations in life are today. Take, take, take, that\u2019s all that it is. What\u2019s in it for me? That syndrome which started in the Me Decade, whenever that was. We\u2019re still in that. It\u2019s still happening.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Dylan makes a seemingly controversial statement that resonates with new layers of poignancy in our present age of seemingly infinite cloud libraries of streamable music and a constant, industrialized churning out of disposable pop hits:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

The world don\u2019t need any more songs\u2026 As a matter of fact, if nobody wrote any songs from this day on, the world ain\u2019t gonna suffer for it. Nobody cares. There\u2019s enough songs for people to listen to, if they want to listen to songs. For every man, woman and child on earth, they could be sent, probably, each of them, a hundred songs, and never be repeated. There\u2019s enough songs.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Unless someone\u2019s gonna come along with a pure heart and has something to say. That\u2019s a different story.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

But as far as songwriting, any idiot could do it\u2026 Everybody writes a song just like everybody\u2019s got that one great novel in them.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

In fact, Dylan seems to regard \u201cpopular entertainers\u201d \u2014 despite counting himself among them \u2014 with a certain degree of contempt and mistrust:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

It\u2019s not a good idea and it\u2019s bad luck to look for life\u2019s guidance to popular entertainers.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Dylan considers what it takes to be among the few rare exceptions worthy of true creative respect:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Madonna\u2019s good, she\u2019s talented, she puts all kinds of stuff together, she\u2019s learned her thing\u2026 But it\u2019s the kind of thing which takes years and years out of your life to be able to do. You\u2019ve got to sacrifice a whole lot to do that. Sacrifice. If you want to make it big, you\u2019ve got to sacrifice a whole lot.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

When Zollo asks Dylan whether he sees himself the way Van Morrison famously characterized him, Dylan replies:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[Pause] Sometimes. It\u2019s within me. It\u2019s within me to put myself up and be a poet. But it\u2019s a dedication. [Softly] It\u2019s a big dedication.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[Pause] Poets don\u2019t drive cars. [Laughs] Poets don\u2019t go to the supermarket. Poets don\u2019t empty the garbage. Poets aren\u2019t on the PTA. Poets, you know, they don\u2019t go picket the Better Housing Bureau, or whatever. Poets don\u2019t\u2026 poets don\u2019t even speak on the telephone. Poets don\u2019t even talk to anybody. Poets do a lot of listening and \u2026 and usually they know why they\u2019re poets! [Laughs]<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[\u2026]<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Poets live on the land. They behave in a gentlemanly way. And live by their own gentlemanly code.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[Pause] And die broke. Or drown in lakes. Poets usually have very unhappy endings\u2026<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

When the conversation veers into the question of whether Shakespeare was really Shakespeare and people\u2019s skepticism about accepting that a single person was able to produce such a body of work, Dylan makes a remark that extends to a great many more aspects of society:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

People have a hard time accepting anything that overwhelms them.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

He seems especially dismissive of public opinion and even more so, similarly to David Bowie, of artists\u2019 preoccupation with it:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

It\u2019s not to anybody\u2019s best interest to think about how they will be perceived tomorrow. It hurts you in the long run.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

As the conversation progresses, Zollo returns to songwriting, citing Pete Seeger\u2019s assertion that originality is a myth and all songwriters are \u201clinks in a chain,\u201d to which Dylan responds:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

The evolution of a song is like a snake, with its tail in its mouth. That\u2019s evolution. That\u2019s what it is. As soon as you\u2019re there, you find your tail.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Considering his own songs, Dylan contemplates their nature, the self-transcendence necessary for writing, and the creative value of being an outcast:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

My songs aren\u2019t dreams. They\u2019re more of a responsive nature\u2026<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

To me, when you need them, they appear. Your life doesn\u2019t have to be in turmoil to write a song like that but you need to be outside of it. That\u2019s why a lot of people, me myself included, write songs when one form or another of society has rejected you. So that you can truly write about it from the outside. Someone who\u2019s never been out there can only imagine it as anything, really.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

###<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Leonard Cohen on Creativity, Hard Work, and Why You Should Never Quit Before You Know What It Is You\u2019re Quitting<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u201cThe cutting of the gem has to be finished before you can see whether it shines.\u201d<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

By Maria Popova<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Canadian singer-songwriter, poet, and novelist Leonard Cohen (b. September 21, 1934) is among the most exhilarating creative spirits of the past century. Recipient of the prestigious Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award and countless other accolades, and an ordained Rinzai Buddhist monk, his music has extended popular song into the realm of poetry, even philosophy. By the time Bob Dylan rose to fame, Cohen already had several volumes of poetry and two novels under his belt, including the critically acclaimed Beautiful Losers, which famously led Allen Ginsberg to remark that \u201cDylan blew everybody\u2019s mind, except Leonard\u2019s.\u201d Once he turned to songwriting in the late 1960s, the world of music was forever changed.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

leonardcohen<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

From Paul Zollo\u2019s impressive interview compendium Songwriters on Songwriting (public library) \u2014 which also gave us Pete Seeger on originality, Bob Dylan on sacrifice and the unconscious mind, and Carole King on perspiration vs. inspiration \u2014 comes a spectacular and wide-ranging 1992 conversation with Cohen, who begins by considering the purpose of music in human life:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

There are always meaningful songs for somebody. People are doing their courting, people are finding their wives, people are making babies, people are washing their dishes, people are getting through the day, with songs that we may find insignificant. But their significance is affirmed by others. There\u2019s always someone affirming the significance of a song by taking a woman into his arms or by getting through the night. That\u2019s what dignifies the song. Songs don\u2019t dignify human activity. Human activity dignifies the song.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Cohen approaches his work with extraordinary doggedness reflecting the notion that work ethic supersedes what we call \u201cinspiration\u201d \u2014 something articulated by such acclaimed and diverse creators as the celebrated composer Tchaikovsky (\u201cA self-respecting artist must not fold his hands on the pretext that he is not in the mood.\u201d), novelist Isabel Allende (\u201cShow up, show up, show up, and after a while the muse shows up, too.\u201d), painter Chuck Close (Inspiration is for amateurs \u2014 the rest of us just show up and get to work.\u201d), beloved author E.B. White (\u201cA writer who waits for ideal conditions under which to work will die without putting a word on paper.\u201d), Victorian novelist Anthony Trollope (\u201cMy belief of book writing is much the same as my belief as to shoemaking. The man who will work the hardest at it, and will work with the most honest purpose, will work the best.\u201d), and designer Massimo Vignelli (\u201cThere is no design without discipline.\u201d). Cohen tells Zollo:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

I\u2019m writing all the time. And as the songs begin to coalesce, I\u2019m not doing anything else but writing. I wish I were one of those people who wrote songs quickly. But I\u2019m not. So it takes me a great deal of time to find out what the song is. So I\u2019m working most of the time.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[\u2026]<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

To find a song that I can sing, to engage my interest, to penetrate my boredom with myself and my disinterest in my own opinions, to penetrate those barriers, the song has to speak to me with a certain urgency.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

To be able to find that song that I can be interested in takes many versions and it takes a lot of uncovering.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[\u2026]<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

My immediate realm of thought is bureaucratic and like a traffic jam. My ordinary state of mind is very much like the waiting room at the DMV\u2026 So to penetrate this chattering and this meaningless debate that is occupying most of my attention, I have to come up with something that really speaks to my deepest interests. Otherwise I nod off in one way or another. So to find that song, that urgent song, takes a lot of versions and a lot of work and a lot of sweat.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

But why shouldn\u2019t my work be hard? Almost everybody\u2019s work is hard. One is distracted by this notion that there is such a thing as inspiration, that it comes fast and easy. And some people are graced by that style. I\u2019m not. So I have to work as hard as any stiff, to come up with my payload.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

He later adds:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Freedom and restriction are just luxurious terms to one who is locked in a dungeon in the tower of song. These are just \u2026 ideas. I don\u2019t have the sense of restriction or freedom. I just have the sense of work. I have the sense of hard labor.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

When asked whether he ever finds that \u201chard labor\u201d enjoyable, Cohen echoes Lewis Hyde\u2019s distinction between work and creative labor and considers what fulfilling work actually means:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

It has a certain nourishment. The mental physique is muscular. That gives you a certain stride as you walk along the dismal landscape of your inner thoughts. You have a certain kind of tone to your activity. But most of the time it doesn\u2019t help. It\u2019s just hard work.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

But I think unemployment is the great affliction of man. Even people with jobs are unemployed. In fact, most people with jobs are unemployed. I can say, happily and gratefully, that I am fully employed. Maybe all hard work means is fully employed.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Cohen further illustrates the point that ideas don\u2019t simply appear to him with a charming anecdote, citing a writer friend of his who once said that Cohen\u2019s mind \u201cis unpolluted by a single idea,\u201d which he took as a great compliment. Instead, he stresses the value of iteration and notes that his work consists of \u201cjust versions.\u201d When Zollo asks whether each song begins with a lyrical idea, Cohen answers with lyrical defiance:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[Writing] begins with an appetite to discover my self-respect. To redeem the day. So the day does not go down in debt. It begins with that kind of appetite.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Cohen addresses the question of where good ideas come from with charming irreverence, producing the now-legendary line that Paul Holdengr\u00e4ber quoted in his conversation with David Lynch on creativity. Cohen echoes T.S. Eliot\u2019s thoughts on the mystical quality of creativity and tells Zollo:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

If I knew where the good songs came from, I\u2019d go there more often. It\u2019s a mysterious condition. It\u2019s much like the life of a Catholic nun. You\u2019re married to a mystery.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

But Cohen\u2019s most moving insights on songwriting transcend the specificity of the craft and extend to the universals of life. Addressing Zollo\u2019s astonishment at the fact that Cohen has discarded entire finished song verses, he reflects on the necessary stick-to-itiveness of the creative process \u2014 this notion that before we quit, we have to have invested all of ourselves in order for the full picture to reveal itself and justify the quitting, which applies equally to everything from work to love:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Before I can discard the verse, I have to write it\u2026 I can\u2019t discard a verse before it is written because it is the writing of the verse that produces whatever delights or interests or facets that are going to catch the light. The cutting of the gem has to be finished before you can see whether it shines.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Cohen returns to the notion of hard work almost as an existential imperative:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

I always used to work hard. But I had no idea what hard work was until something changed in my mind\u2026 I don\u2019t really know what it was. Maybe some sense that this whole enterprise is limited, that there was an end in sight\u2026 That you were really truly mortal.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Considering his ongoing interest in the process itself rather than the outcome, Cohen makes a beautiful case for the art of self-renewal by exploring the deeper rewards and gratifications that have kept him going for half a century:<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

It [has] to do with two things. One is economic urgency. I just never made enough money to say, \u201cOh, man, I think I\u2019m gonna get a yacht now and scuba-dive.\u201d I never had those kinds of funds available to me to make radical decisions about what I might do in life. Besides that, I was trained in what later became known as the Montreal School of Poetry. Before there were prizes, before there were grants, before there were even girls who cared about what I did. We would meet, a loosely defined group of people. There were no prizes, as I said, no rewards other than the work itself. We would read each other poems. We were passionately involved with poems and our lives were involved with this occupation\u2026<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

We had in our minds the examples of poets who continued to work their whole lives. There was never any sense of a raid on the marketplace, that you should come up with a hit and get out. That kind of sensibility simply did not take root in my mind until very recently\u2026<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

So I always had the sense of being in this for keeps, if your health lasts you. And you\u2019re fortunate enough to have the days at your disposal so you can keep on doing this. I never had the sense that there was an end. That there was a retirement or that there was a jackpot.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Quelle:<\/p>\n

https:\/\/www.brainpickings.org\/2014\/07\/15\/leonard-cohen-paul-zollo-creativity\/<\/a><\/p>\n

https:\/\/www.brainpickings.org\/2014\/05\/21\/bob-dylan-songwriters-on-songwriting-interview\/<\/a><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Paul Zollos Buch, indem Songwriter (wie z.B. Bob Dylan und Leonard Cohen \u00fcber die hohe Kunst des Songwriting referieren, gibt es nun schon in der vierten auch erweiterten Auflage. In der neuen Ausgabe mit dabei – neben Dyaln und Cohen – auch Lou Reed und Lenny Kravitz. This expanded fourth edition of Songwriters on Songwriting […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2713","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-allgemein"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/leonardcohen.de\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2713","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/leonardcohen.de\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/leonardcohen.de\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/leonardcohen.de\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/leonardcohen.de\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=2713"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/leonardcohen.de\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2713\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2718,"href":"https:\/\/leonardcohen.de\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2713\/revisions\/2718"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/leonardcohen.de\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=2713"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/leonardcohen.de\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=2713"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/leonardcohen.de\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=2713"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}